Leon's Furniture

Merci! Au livreur Léon pour l'excellent service que nous avons reçu de leur part!
Service rapide, courtois et très professionnel.
Merci encore:)

J'ai eu un très bon service en ligne, par téléphone et même durant la livraison.
Sa fait plusieurs années que je fais affaire avec vous et le service et l'expérience client me déçois jamais! Merci!
P.s: J'adore mes meubles ;-)

Got my couch at a good price compared to competitors. Got delivered today: delivery guys were polite, respectful and efficient. Overall very pleasant experience!

Horrible and inaccurate information was given. Front office and services is worse. Liars, don't care about clients. Take the time to go elsewhere and spend a little more if you have to. They are not worth your time.

Service de livraison efficace et courtois. Livraison effectuée dans la plage horaire promise.
Qualité prix des produits excellent.

I bought a stove from here and now they feel like they should be able to robocall me whenever they like. Pro tip: The next time I need something, I will go elsewhere.

The salesman was top notch, super helpful and friendly he's been working there for over 28 years. The problem started when I paid in cash for my mattress. I gave 250$ and the cashiers told me I gave her 230$ So I felt like they stole 20$ from me but I wasn't going to make a big deal for 20$. When I got at the shipping, the workers were absolutely rude to me. Tall skinny young guy tells me to go wait outside. ️ Wow! That's how you talk to your clients? Again, not gonna make a big deal but holy moly get some God damn manners boy! Guy acted like he was in the hood lmao

Je n'ai pas encore déballé mes meubles car ils viennent tout juste d'être livrés mais jusqu'à maintenant: commande en ligne, date de réception des meubles en inventaire, appel pour prise de RV de livraison et la livraison = 100 / 10! Vraiment, votre service est IMPECCABLE - merci tellement!

Bought Maytag dryer but it doesn't actually dry the clothes, we tried different cycles with same results.

We have to turn it twice, for the same cycle and even with that, the results are disappointing.

I called the store, the customer service right away tells me 'we don't exchange'. I was calling to know what my options are, only to be rudely treated and being directed to Maytag Customer Service, but I bought the dryer from Leon.

Please note that i have emailed them when this issue occurred to understand my options, haven’t received a single reply

Bien que notre dernier achat remonte à 3 ans chez Leon, lors d'un récent déménagement (08,2022), un item d'un canapé s'est brisé.
Nous nous sommes présenté chez Leon (Laval) pour tenter de faire réparer l'item. A notre grande surprise, le service après-vente a pu nous fournir le remplacement et ce sans frais additionnel.
Nous avons grandement apprécié ce service.
Réal

Terrible experience! Do yourself a favor and go somewhere else. Bought a couch which came in the wrong color. Had to wait a year since the day of purchase to receive the proper couch. When it came, one of the legs was broken, 2 decorative pillows were missing and we received a cushion for a portion of the couch we did not order. A technician was sent to replace the broken leg and retrieve the cushion that didn't belong but they didn't send us the missing decorative pillows that were missing!

Said we had to come and get them from the store. At that point we moved 2 hours away and the price of gas being exorbitant, couldn't just drive 2 hours for 2 pillows that Leon's was responsible in providing! Why didn't they send the pillows with the technician who came for the other problems is beyond me.

Very unsatisfied!

Edit: just saw their generic reply! They claim that you can contact their customer service, but nobody calls you back and the same lady keeps telling you to leave your name and number. Just pathetic! Avoid at all cost. Also their manager, Alexandre Lepage, does not reply to emails or phone calls.

J'ai été très satisfait de ma visite pour la première fois et non la dernière chez Léon,
Le conseiller Dominique Boisjoli ma très bien aider et surtout compris dû a ma maladie pulmonaire et maladie dégénérative osseuse ma trouvé le sofa inclinable a mon goût! Vraiment merci beaucoup j'en suis très heureux.
PS: livraison livrer en 2 jours tel comme promis:

Pire magasin de leons. J'ai commande des sofas depuis Novembre et ils ont exige le paiement total afit de garder la propriete de livraison. Nous sommes Mai et aucune livraison encore, pire ils me disent que ca va etre livre Juillet. Ils continuent de dire aux clients que ca prend 3 mois pour la livraison.

My wife and I went in to look for a sofa in March. Fantastic sales rep Linda gave us all the info we needed without pressure. Just attentive enough while we shopped. Out of all the stores in the West Island, we bought our sofa and chair here. The quality for price cannot be beat. Got delivery today and I can say my experience was 10/10 from A-Z with this store. I’ll definitely be back in the future!

We ordered Conan Sectionnel inclinable 6 mcx – gris on August 19,2021, and accepted an offered financing from Dejardins bank. The salesperson Ralph told us that the delivery would take three months, and we would get it at the beginning of November 2021. We paid all taxes right away at Leon and started paying the financing every month. After approximately one month, we received a call from Ralph saying that the delivery was postponed to the next year, and we should wait 2 more months till the end of January 2022. When we asked if we could take the model from the showing room, we were refused, because Leon was still accepting orders on this model regardless of extremely long delivery delays. Today is the end of January 2022, and we are writing this review having almost a half of our financing already paid. No one from Leon Laval centre haven't contacted us regarding our order that we've been waiting for more than 5 months. We called to Leon yesterday to know a delivery date and were completely shocked when a customer service representative said that the delivery date would be not earlier than in March 2022 (without any concrete date again). We were told that nothing depends on Leon, and they din't know the exact date when our order would be delivered. Having the fact that Conan Sectionnel inclinable 6 mcx is still on the website, I assume that Leon Laval continues to accept orders for this model knowing that delivery delays are unknown. At this point we paid a big chunk of the financial and neither Leon nor us do not know when we are going to receive it. If we knew that it would happen, we would never go to Leon. I suggest everyone to avoid this place.

UPD: After 7 months, Leon still hasn't delivered our order. Yesterday we came to the store and canceled the deal. In total, Leon used our money for free for 7 months, continuing to make promises. They didn't offer us any compensation, and didn't even apologize. This is the worst service I have ever had. Don't believe a single word of their salespersons and avoid this place.

Let me start with WOW this issue started last November.
So basically my dog chewed the side of the chair a little bit and i needed them to refer me to someone to repair the issue. I called the gentlemen last November and he had placed the order for the pieces and material to fix it. The lady i just talked to today said it was only ordered in January, @$%#, two months to order some material and a piece for the chair. I call today April 4 and guess what the piece they ordered was wrong and so they are ordering another piece.
People we are 6 months into this repair request, no-one has ever followed up, sent me any updates or have even offered anything to compensate for this ridiculous mess up on their side. I even had to escalate today asking the person at Leons since i have been waiting since November 2021.
The response and the persons tone was basically we are doing what we can, which is basically nothing. I have even left four voice messages ate the reception of the Laval store that has been treating my issue.

So here is my opinion the only furniture store that ever had good after sales support was Ashleys furniture that is now closed. This store stay away from it if you ever need after sales support, terrible. The basic feeling is they only want your money not your fidelity!

Ils ne sont pas sérieux, une fois qu’ils reçoivent l’argent, ils. S’en fous de toi.
J’ai acheté deux causeuses que je devait avoir reçu au moins une le mois de février et l’autre le mois d’avril, mais rien que se passe et après de réussir à les contacter la seule réponse c’est: il faut attendre.
En fin ils ont déjà l’argent dans la poche et on a une pandémie pour dissimuler le comportement de profiteur.

My boyfriend and I have been buying furniture and appliances at Leon's for about 10 years and the service has always been above and beyond, including after-sale service. They respect their price-match policy with courtesy I've never seen elsewhere and on the rare occasion we've had issues they are always incredibly helpful.
It's easy to tell their customer-satisfaction culture really is part of everything they do and I'm delighted they are a Canadian gem on top of all that.

THEY NEVER ANSWER THE FREAKING PHONE.
I ordered a fridge online on july 15. They call me to say its not in stock anymore & will call me when it is. Still no update. First & last time i order anything from there.
*UPDATE
I finally got my fridge, they brought my old fridge down they said they would leave it on the side on the grass but nope they left it RIGHT infront of my building door (i got many complaints) I called to complain they said they would come back and move it but never did. I took matters in my own hands.

The sales agents will do everything to close a sale with you, but after that you will receive no customer service at all. We placed an order on Saturday December 4th and were told our delivery would arrive the following Tuesday. Tuesday arrived and we received no delivery confirmation or communication from anyone. When we tried to give the store a call no one answered or called us back when we left a voicemail. Very poor service.

Edit: I called January 6th for an update they had my couch in stock and delivered on the 8th. So far I love the purchase. Leaving a 4 star because my ottoman is scheduled for july and I presume if I didn't call they wouldn't have let me know it was in stock of the exception of the ottoman. The new system to keep us posted of delivery was awesome and efficient.

I'm on my 8th purchase at leons, 3 dishwashers, 1 mattress, a kitchen table and 2 couches and 1 tv. I'm currently waiting on my couch that was bought October 8th 2021. At first I was told early December then when i bought my mattress I was told late December. I just called for an update and was told to call around the 10-20th of January to put pressure and IF it's in stock in Toronto it will be in stock 3 weeks later at the laval location + the time to book the delivery were looking at end of February/early March an thats if it's in stock in Toronto. This is absolutely unacceptable. If you can't keep up with the inventory stop selling and having sales. Already was my initial wait 2.5 months but this is not ok had I known of this insane delay of about 5 months+ I would have never purchased this couch
If I can get my couch in good condition by January the latest I'll gladly change my review rating but a 5+month long wait when promised max 2.5 is too long to wait

Ne mérite pas même un étoile, un client depuis 3 ans et avec des achtas de plus 17000$, ils m'ont de demandé de revenir au magazin pour un item de 29$ pas bien payé (à cause d'une employée qui préfère de bavarder avec sa collègue au lieu de finir son travail correctement) sinon ils te font pas la livraison. Pire expérience

Le vendeur était bien! Mais pour le service après-vente on repassera. Juste pour un simple retour d'appel pour leur confirmer que la date de livraison prévue est correct avec nous. J'ai dû téléphoner au minimum 30 fois. En plus de leur envoyer des e-mails. Alors je n'imagine même pas avoir à faire une réclamation sur leur garantie avoisinant les 300$. J'avais oublié 5 mois d'attente pour recevoir les meubles.

I am surprised that such a large place does not have anything in existence, I went with the intention of buying some beds, sofas, a bed frame, but the employee tells me to stuff will arrive at my address in 6 months! Such a large store and the only thing that they have on sale is nothing, they sale used or damage stuff and they have the same price as if they were new! I do not recommend this store at all if you need to buy and bring furniture to your home! I am very disappointed in this store

First off, I understand the pandemic has been hard on businesses and all but this does not excuse the following events

Delivery #1: Refrigerator delivered with small dent in freezer drawer. Called salesman to see if drawer could be replaced. He said someone would call me back … Nobody did, I guess once the commission is made he doesn’t care.

Delivery #2: tv table received with a broken drawer, took over a month to be fixed, when I could have gone to the local hardware store to get the parts to fix it … but you know, since when you buy something new, you expect it to not be damaged.

Delivery #3: dining room set… one damaged chair and one with missing parts. This is after waiting 3 months for delivery.

Delivery #4: 3 weeks after delivery 4, new chair delivered, no damage but … still parts missing. Called Leon’s, customer rep was suppose to call me back but didn’t until I called the next day to complain. Magically found the parts but now I have to go to the store to pick them up. With all these issues I would have thought someone from the store would deliver ASAP. I never asked for a discount just wanted my new stuff delivered as new and without missing parts … I guess this was asking too much of Leon’s … Last time dealing with them … once I go pick up my parts that is

J'ai dû retourner chez vous 3 fois pour obtenir des pièces manquantes sur mon appareil de son car j'ai du acheter un démonstrateur Bravo aux services à la clientèle, ils ont été poli et serviables.

Les livreurs étaient super professionnels. Ils ont même pris la peine d’assembler notre fauteuil. Par contre il y a un petit accroc, ou grafignure sur le dessus du fauteuil à un endroit apparent, et les pattes ne semblent pas s’ajuster parfaitement car elles ne touchent pas tous le plancher. Le livreur a pris des photos afin de vous les soumettre. Laisser moi savoir ce que vous pouvez faire. Un échange, un dédommagement. J’attends de vos nouvelles. Merci de bien prendre note de mon courriel. Laurent Vanier

Mauvais service apres vente, reçu mon frigidaire au mois de juin 2021 avec une bosse sur la porte. Porte changer le 8 aout 2021 mais pas la bonne couleur. Nous sommes rendu novembre 2021 toujours pas changer. Il faut toujours apeller pour avoir des infos mais jamais la meme personne, meme si on me dit inquite toi pas moi je vais faire le suivi. La derniere reponse que j’ai eu, ben au moin ton frigidaire marche.

Bon choix de meubles qualités et prix mais l'effect covid se fait ressentir il y a pas beaucoup de vendeurs sur le plancher (manque de personnel). Donc pour se faire servir et avoir des informations en personne sa peu prendre du temps il est préférable de savoir se que vous voulez acheter avant de se rendre sur place.

Depuis le mois d août que j attends pour un remplacement j ai appellee 2 à 3 fois on me dit toujours qu on me rappelleras le plus tôt possible j attends depuis 3 semaines pas de réponse l après service est vraiment abominable!

Nicely sold their products but very poor delivery and customer service especially the supervisor Rachel, trying to say that she is the supervisor but did the same mistake as everyone else were doing, very very poor service, if you can avoid going there well please do!

Très bon service, Ralph (vendeur) très gentil et pas du tout insistant, donne de bons conseils, de bonnes informations et met de l'ambiance dans la place!

I went there shopping for sofas, they have multiple models, sizes and colors so that I was able to find what I want in no time moreover the sales agent was professional and friendly.

Ne prenez jamais la garanti! Cela va faire 3 mois que nous attendons pour qui vienne réparer notre sofa. Ils sont venu voir le problème et on dit qu’ils devaient commander la pièce. Mais cela fait 3 mois que j’attend après la pièce et la semaine dernière j’ai appeler plusieurs fois sans réponse et laisser des messages. On m’a même raccrocher au nez …. SERVICE À LA CLIENTÈLE UN GROS 0!

Dont waste your time buying at Leon's worst customer experience. Equipement takes more then 3 months to be delivered. If your not happy with your purchase they charge restocking fee of 50% even if you open 1 box and saw not the color you were expecting. Once you get mad they try to deal a 30% restocking fee. They say it was your responsibility to verify our companie policies!

I enjoy this mid-range store for shopping. I find the service above average. As with all furniture stores deliveries are problematic, in my case they will arrive in 2 months.

Was promised my table would arrive first week of november but then in mid October they said I would get it at the end of December! Very poor service from there, the manager didn't accept to make me a rebate on another table for the inconvenience, not even 1$ just to show remorse. Don't waste your time at Leon's.

Bought a large L-couch ($4500).
Parts don’t click together properly, leaving a substantial space between sections.
Post-sale service lie to you and tell you they’ll “call you back today” but never do. It took forever to get a technician on site to assess what we’ve been saying for weeks.
They said they’d order the part and advise us. Never happened, no one follows up.
My wife and I must have called more than a dozen times following up on the expected callbacks, in vain.
Getting any after-sale service from this store is impossible. The person is alway “busy” and will “call you back”.

Leon doesn’t think my wife and me are also “busy” with our jobs.

A business that can’t service its clients does not deserve your money.
On that principle and the facts stated above, we want a full refund.

Quel compagnie de m.e. J'ai achete des meubles au mois de juin avec un delai de livraison de maximum 6 semaines. On est rendu dans la 8 semaine, j'apelle le magasin, et ils me disent que peut etre ca va etre livre au mois de novembre. Quel manque de profesionallism.

Vous augmentez vos prix et vous donnez 20% de rabais?
Meme sans rabais cetait moins chère avant que vous augmentez vos prix pour ensuite reduire au prix regulier avec votre fausse promotion!
Je comprend pas comment c'est légale!

Plus jamais j'irai chez Leon!

Il manque de l' honnêteté chz vous.

Ne répondent jamais aux appels et aux messages laissés par téléphone. Matelas commandé en mars pour livraison en juillet: recevons un modèle de plancher, sale sur les côtés, aucunement ce que nous avons demandé. Aucun rappel de suivi après une semaine et plusieurs tentatives d’appel de notre part. Très mauvais service!

Not helpful when we receive damaged furniture. It took over a moth to send someone to look into it
Then it took forever to order parts (never arrived)
We had to return it and get another one
Frustrating

Pire expérience article acheté et promis 6 mois plus tard livraison tjrs reportée ainsi une fois la journée de la livraison arrivée nous avons attendu toute la journée pour nous faire dire qu'ils sont venu et qu'il y avait personne alors que c'était faux.plus jamais

Bought a couch there, two years ago. They've robocalling me every month with some pointless ads that I don't know how to get rid of. Horrible business model, who in 2021 actually gets convinced to purchase anything from getting robocalled? This is annoying and makes me feel like never setting foot there again.

Leon grow a lot, improving on the selection of products provided as well as customer service on the floor. With this current COVID situation inventory is an issue but this is general problem for all the stores. Also, price is much lower than it was before (5+ years ago) being very competitive in some cases even better than B&M, not mentioning the other stores. I am giving a 4 stars only because of the stock availability, many of the products being at 3+ months waiting time.

Nous avons fait plusieurs achats chez Léons de Laval et nous avons toujours été très satisfaits avec le service. Notre dernier achat fut pour un réfrigérateur. Les livreurs ont été super sympathiques mais dû à l'espace restraint et malgré leur meilleurs efforts malheureusement il y a eu quelques dommages causés aux murs et au plancher.

J'ai contacté le Sévice à la clientèle qui ont pris ça en charge. C'est M. Manuel Nadeau qui est venu faire les réparations. Il a été super professionnel et il a effectué un travail impeccable mettant le tout comme neuf.

Merci Léons de Laval et M. Nadeau pour l'excellent service!

I don't know why all the bad reviews. I had excellent service so far. I bought 6 appliances and am very satisfied.

Mauvaise service et leur meubles sont defecteux, ils ne sont pas de bonnes qualities.
J'ai achéte un sofa, les pieds sont brisées c'est la deuxiéme fois que ça arrivée, le technicien même a marqué dans le rapport il faut changer de modéle et ils me racontent n'import quoi au telephone mais je laisserai jamais tomber parce qu'ils m'ont pas donné gratuitement soit mon argent, soit me changer pour un autre modele.
Ce qu'ils font est unacceptable.
Je ne suis pas satisfait de leur service et je vous suggéres pas d'achéter de meuble chez eux. Il faut faire trés attention, une fois paye, ils te connaissent pas

We purchased 5 appliances at Leon this past month and our sales person, Mr. Vicent Brouillet, was extremely helpful, friendly, patient and accomodating. He knows his products and knows what customer service is all about. He did not pressure us into buying and I highly recommend you ask for him if or when you shop at Leon in Laval.

The man that serve me didn't feel like doing his job today very dismissive ready to buy but not with him

UPDATE.ordered a Whirlpool YWFE745H0FS Range (sept 11 2020). Today (jan 23 2021) 19 month later no news of my payed purchase.salesman not much help, no compansation offered.estimated delivery date changed 4 times so far.

The worst furniture store in Canada. I placed an online order on September 19 202. Till this date, I haven't received my order and I don't have a delivery date. Their phone lines are not responding to anyone and their online assistance is as useless as they are. It keeps repeating its cliché meaningless responses. Covid is not an acceptable excuse for this level of bad customer service. I did online orders from other furniture stores and they all said it will take sometime, but they immediately gave a delivery date and they honoured their commitment. This store is a joke and their customer service is completely inefficient. My advise: never buy anything from Leon's. Simply, it is bad, scandalous bad.

3 MOIS D'ATTENTE! Cela fait 3 mois que j'attend et j'attend encore après un divan que j'étais supposer avoir en septembre! Personne répond au téléphone, on doit se déplacer en magasin, j'arrive en magasin pour dire mon insatisfaction et aucun aide. Sa fait simplement me dire, on peut rien faire vous êtes reporté encore 1 mois! Va-t-il j'attends 1 an pour avoir un divan calvaire. Sérieux, acheté pas la.

J'ai acheté un frigidaire fin 2017 sur le quel j'ai rajouté une garantie.bref pour faire une histoire courte ca fait maintenant 3mois et demi qu'il ne fonctionne pas et ce meme apres 7 visites du tech et après avoir changé pour au dessus de $1500 de pieces.lors de ma dernière visite chez léon, a la place de m'aider le commis du service a la clientele m'a carrément dit que ca n'etait plus leur problème,
je peux comprendre mais il n'a jamais essayé de trouver une solution.je fait le meme boulot que lui et je n'ai jamais agi de la sorte avec mes clients, on trouve toujours une solution.alors jour de noel il y a une vente et je suis prêt a leur donner une 2eme chance, manque de chance la vente est seulement pour le 25 (pas de taxes)
j'essai de poser une question en ligne sans succès j'attend toujours une réponse, en attendant la vente est terminée et je suis pas mal frustré.

voila pour Leon
il ne meritent pas d'encouragements

Le service n'est pas terrible il vont penser à certains vendeurs de VOITURES une fois acheté arranger vous avec vos problème

C'est l'endroit où il y a de très beaux meubles mais un peu plus onéreux que les autres magasins de meubles à recommander

Leur renom n'est plus à faire. Ils sont tellement mauvais. Le service a prêt vente est exécrable. Le gérant de la succursale de Laval est le summum de la incompétence.

Too pushy sales associates. Everyone is after their commission, I doubt they actually care about customers needs.

About to be two full months without my Fridge that I ordered back in October. I understand that with the pandemic, there are issues and they don't know a accurate date. But since then, I've received zero courtesy call from anyone to even give me an approximate date or timeframe. No effort from them to give the customer any post sales service, once they have you paying, they could really care less. Calls go unanswered so I have to go chat with someone on Leons.com to get any question answered. I should have trusted other peoples opinion regarding Leons and shopped elsewhere. Awful awful service.

J'ai acheter un congélateur de LÉON IL Y AS PLUS DE 3 ANS.
Je continue à recevoir des appels automatisé pour m'informer des ventes.

La loi au Canada est clair
Si vous avez fait affaire avec une entreprise au cours des 18 derniers mois, elle a le droit de vous téléphoner. Une fois que les 18 mois sont écoulés, elle doit cesser de vous téléphoner si votre numéro est inscrit sur la LNNTE, à moins que vous ne lui permettiez de le faire.

Mon numéro est inscrit sur LNNTE,
Pourquoi Léon ne respecte t'il pas la loi?
Vraiment désagréable
Pour cette raison je vous recommande de ne JAMAIS, JAMAIS, JAMAIS rien acheté chez Léon

Beau magasin de meubles et électroménager beaucoup de style différent et ça a toute sorte de prix le seule hic c'est ce vendeur qui vous suite de loin et nous donne l'impression d'être suivi par un agent de la CIA déplaisant et dérangent

Plenty of room to shop around without bumping into other customers. Friendly and professional salesperson. Safety measures applied for Covid 19.

Frigo acheté le 4 juillet et payé complètement la journée même,
Commande spéciale qui peut prendre 4-8 semaines.

Le vendeur nous appels pour une Livraison le 29 aout, parfait.
Je rappel pour confirmer et la réponse est la suivante: Ha désolé nous ne recevrons pas votre frigo avant Novembre finalement.

Je comprend qu'avec la covid il y a du retard mais 5 mois pour un frigo que nous avant payé complément.suivi aujourd'hui 13 novembre 2020 notre frigo discontinué, merci de ne jamais m'avoir appeler pour m'aviser et de n'avoir jamais répondu au téléphone. J'ai du aller ne magasin pour avoir l'information, je ne retournerai jamais dans aucun Leon

Worst costumer service. Zero professional attitude. We ordered something online to pick up at the store. When we went to pick it up, the lady working there was rude and did not help us at all or try to find a solution to our problem, just gave us back our money. This is not the first time we've dealt with this kind of attitude from this store.

Nous avons fait l'achat de notre sécheuse en ligne. Après nous avoir contacté une fois pour nous aviser que nous la recevrions fin octobre, plus rien depuis. Pas de sécheuse et pas de statut de notre commande. Nous avons téléphoné à plusieurs reprises mon mari et moi pour obtenir un suivi et AUCUN RETOUR D'APPEL. J'avais même envoyé un courriel pour obtenir un suivi et je n'ai pas eu de retour. J'ai dû faire 1 heure de route pour me rendre sur place pour savoir ce qui se passe avec ma commande. Ils ne savent toujours pas quand ils vont recevoir mon article, possiblement fin novembre peut être début décembre. Peut-etre que j'aurais aimé être avisée d'un tel délais! J'ai annulé ma commande car je sais que si j'ai des questions ou je veux faire un suivi on ne retourne pas les appels. Suite à ma demande de remboursement on me dit que ca peut prendre 10 à 15 jours ouvrables pour ravoir mon paiement? !? Inacceptable!